1 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:09,120 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:11,910 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:33,619 --> 00:00:28,220 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 4 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:33,629 episode number 536 for the 27th of 5 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:37,140 January 2019 richardsaunders coming to 6 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:40,290 you today from Golden Gate Park in San 7 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:45,530 Francisco I'm on my way to visit the 8 00:00:53,780 --> 00:00:49,890 wonderful Academy of Sciences Building 9 00:00:54,770 --> 00:00:53,790 Museum exhibition it's been here for 10 00:00:58,579 --> 00:00:54,780 some years now 11 00:01:00,670 --> 00:00:58,589 and it has a staggering array of things 12 00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:00,680 to do things to look at things to 13 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:04,680 experience and a gift shop a report 14 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:06,600 about that coming up later on in the 15 00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:09,750 skeptic zone also this week yow ease 16 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:14,220 oh yes Yowies a report of a Yowie 17 00:01:19,069 --> 00:01:17,130 attacking a truck from Australia in the 18 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:19,079 state of Queensland and you'll be 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:21,360 reading that report and talking about 20 00:01:27,100 --> 00:01:23,610 these mythical creatures 21 00:01:30,050 --> 00:01:27,110 well maybe their mythical with noted 22 00:01:32,649 --> 00:01:30,060 cryptozoologist Ben Radford and of 23 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:32,659 course he is one of the co-hosts of the 24 00:01:38,450 --> 00:01:36,450 squaring the strange podcast also 25 00:01:41,779 --> 00:01:38,460 another report from Trish Hann in her 26 00:01:46,039 --> 00:01:41,789 new segment Trish and chips this week 27 00:01:49,399 --> 00:01:46,049 Trish chats to dr. Brad Makai about pill 28 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:49,409 testing at concerts music events and 29 00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:53,520 this is a big big topic in Australia 30 00:01:58,249 --> 00:01:56,100 because sadly young people seem to be 31 00:02:01,879 --> 00:01:58,259 dying because they're taking drugs at 32 00:02:04,730 --> 00:02:01,889 pop concerts outside music events and so 33 00:02:07,129 --> 00:02:04,740 on now they don't know exactly what's in 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:07,139 the drugs and there's a move to 35 00:02:12,930 --> 00:02:08,970 introduce pill testing at these events 36 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:12,940 and there's large 37 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:15,910 lobbie of people who won't have a bar of 38 00:02:22,950 --> 00:02:17,830 it who say we can't introduce pill 39 00:02:26,670 --> 00:02:22,960 testing put kids are dying a very vexed 40 00:02:29,119 --> 00:02:26,680 issue find out more later on with Trish 41 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:31,710 what a wonderful Park Golden Gate Park 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:34,090 is in San Francisco it's worth having a 43 00:02:40,140 --> 00:02:37,450 look on the map on Google Maps or map of 44 00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:40,150 your choice it's a huge enormous 45 00:02:50,460 --> 00:02:45,000 wonderful rolling Park here with the 46 00:02:53,009 --> 00:02:50,470 Botanical Gardens and squirrels and you 47 00:02:58,220 --> 00:02:53,019 can do things like rent a Segway and zip 48 00:03:01,110 --> 00:02:58,230 around so I am now approaching the 49 00:03:03,979 --> 00:03:01,120 Academy of Sciences 50 00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:03,989 you know I do that and walk inside and 51 00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:07,780 look for a donut I hope you enjoy the 52 00:03:24,230 --> 00:03:09,950 skeptic zone 53 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,650 [Music] 54 00:03:33,090 --> 00:03:30,300 joining me from Albuquerque New Mexico 55 00:03:36,530 --> 00:03:33,100 it's one of the stars of squaring the 56 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:36,540 strange Ben Radford hello Ben 57 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:38,710 great to catch up with you know the 58 00:03:46,010 --> 00:03:42,010 reason I'm contacting you is because I 59 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:46,020 was I was informed of a weird yo ii yo 60 00:03:50,850 --> 00:03:48,340 ii being sort of a bigfoot-type 61 00:03:54,210 --> 00:03:50,860 character story coming out of australia 62 00:03:57,110 --> 00:03:54,220 and this i thought well who could i chat 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:03:57,120 to who's an expert in cryptozoology ah 64 00:04:03,630 --> 00:04:00,010 Ben Radford and this has been a long 65 00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:03,640 long term interest of yours yes you know 66 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:06,460 I've always been fascinated by by by the 67 00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:10,080 the more tangible things right and so 68 00:04:15,150 --> 00:04:11,920 I've always been a little less 69 00:04:17,039 --> 00:04:15,160 interested in UFOs and psychics for 70 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:17,049 example because they're sort of they're 71 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:18,850 sort of beyond our grasp you know 72 00:04:22,290 --> 00:04:20,260 they're they're not tangible but if 73 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:22,300 you're looking at you know chupacabras 74 00:04:27,780 --> 00:04:24,520 and Lake Monsters and Bigfoot and Yowies 75 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:27,790 in theory you could go and grab one and 76 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:29,530 touch one and pet one if it'll let you I 77 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:33,850 guess good point good point I mean in in 78 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:36,190 theory they are quite tangible well if 79 00:04:44,370 --> 00:04:40,050 they existed I tell you what they did 80 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:44,380 yes advisedly let me for the benefit of 81 00:04:53,860 --> 00:04:47,110 all this and this I'll read a portion of 82 00:05:02,180 --> 00:04:57,190 published on the 24th of January 2019 83 00:05:05,630 --> 00:05:02,190 written by Robin woth and appearing in 84 00:05:10,860 --> 00:05:05,640 the Korea newspaper Queensland 85 00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:10,870 trucky claims Yowie bashed his bonnet a 86 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:12,800 [Music] 87 00:05:19,490 --> 00:05:17,160 Queensland Truckee o and Truckee in 88 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:19,500 Australia means trucker in the United 89 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:21,900 States we tend to put I e on the end of 90 00:05:27,590 --> 00:05:25,080 many words sometimes he put o and in 91 00:05:30,410 --> 00:05:27,600 this case its ie a Queensland and 92 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:30,420 Queensland is this state the large state 93 00:05:38,810 --> 00:05:34,100 mostly tropical in the northern part of 94 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:38,820 eastern Australia hmm a Queensland 95 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:42,060 Truckee claims he eyeballs a hulking 96 00:05:47,810 --> 00:05:44,730 three meter tall Yowie in broad daylight 97 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:47,820 before it punched his bonnet and melted 98 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:50,130 into the bush the delivery driver 99 00:05:55,610 --> 00:05:53,010 identified only as Gary says he was 100 00:05:58,340 --> 00:05:55,620 driving in the bushy gold coast 101 00:06:01,100 --> 00:05:58,350 hinterland on a november morning last 102 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:01,110 year when he rounded a sharp right bend 103 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:05,130 at wither in' and had the experience of 104 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:07,740 his life he slammed on the brakes after 105 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:10,290 spotting what he thought was a boulder 106 00:06:17,870 --> 00:06:12,840 tumbling down a steep slope onto the 107 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:17,880 road but then it moved gary says he 108 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:21,450 watched as the creature unfurled huge 109 00:06:28,490 --> 00:06:25,290 hairy limbs limbs and stood upright 110 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:28,500 before locking eyes with him through the 111 00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:33,090 trucks windscreen quote it wasn't a rock 112 00:06:39,830 --> 00:06:36,960 at all unquote gary has told yo'ii 113 00:06:43,670 --> 00:06:39,840 hunter Dean Harrison in an interview 114 00:06:45,650 --> 00:06:43,680 shared on social media quote this thing 115 00:06:48,620 --> 00:06:45,660 scared the absolute crap outta me man 116 00:06:53,230 --> 00:06:48,630 quote he said the creature was a 117 00:06:55,940 --> 00:06:53,240 towering beast its naval level 118 00:06:59,120 --> 00:06:55,950 he said the creature was a towering 119 00:07:02,210 --> 00:06:59,130 beast its naval level with the trucks 120 00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:02,220 bonnet 6 foot 1.8 meters off the ground 121 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:04,440 and he reckons it would have 122 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:09,930 Wade close to 400 kilos at first the 123 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:12,420 Yowie with its small head and oversized 124 00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:15,590 body seemed somehow shocked or 125 00:07:22,850 --> 00:07:18,480 embarrassed as it stood in the full 126 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:22,860 glare of day at 10 a.m. on that November 127 00:07:28,130 --> 00:07:23,250 morning 128 00:07:30,020 --> 00:07:28,140 but then it got mad quote he slept or 129 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:30,030 punched the center of the bonnet of my 130 00:07:36,910 --> 00:07:33,210 truck it was like I had hit a small car 131 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:36,920 in quote the truck he said quote he was 132 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:41,490 so tall he had to reach down to hit the 133 00:07:48,770 --> 00:07:45,180 truck just before he hit the truck he 134 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:48,780 grunted it wasn't a scream or a cry or a 135 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:53,010 howl but a loud grunt it was hairy it 136 00:07:58,430 --> 00:07:55,650 had hair probably two inches long all 137 00:08:02,150 --> 00:07:58,440 over its body it had a round face like a 138 00:08:04,010 --> 00:08:02,160 chimpanzee and quote well gary was still 139 00:08:06,530 --> 00:08:04,020 trying to make sense of what he was 140 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:06,540 seeing the creature turned and vanished 141 00:08:14,770 --> 00:08:09,630 into the bush Gary does not want to be 142 00:08:18,350 --> 00:08:14,780 identified fearing being labeled a loon 143 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:18,360 mr. Harrison B gary hunter understands 144 00:08:23,810 --> 00:08:20,640 that but he's not bothered by those who 145 00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:23,820 doubt the Yowies existence he's sure 146 00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:27,180 they are out there having tracked scores 147 00:08:30,250 --> 00:08:28,950 of sighting across Australia for the 148 00:08:33,529 --> 00:08:30,260 last 20 years 149 00:08:36,339 --> 00:08:33,539 he says he's even been attacked by a 150 00:08:39,740 --> 00:08:36,349 Yowie not once but twice 151 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:39,750 but as far as Yowie sightings go gary's 152 00:08:46,370 --> 00:08:42,330 is a good one mr. harrison says quote 153 00:08:49,970 --> 00:08:46,380 this is astounding he had such a clear 154 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:49,980 view of it amazing unquote he told the 155 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:52,470 Australian Associated Press adding the 156 00:08:58,530 --> 00:08:54,720 truck driver got such a good look at the 157 00:09:03,390 --> 00:08:58,540 creature that he was able to draw it 158 00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:03,400 and the article goes on there will be a 159 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:05,440 link in this week's show notes you can 160 00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:07,390 read the rest of this thrilling story 161 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:10,120 for yourself but I thought I would end 162 00:09:17,210 --> 00:09:13,930 this reading of the story with the final 163 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:17,220 thought in this report 164 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:20,530 why have no body's been found meaning 165 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:23,950 our bodies mr. Harrison believes yaoi 166 00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:27,250 family groups operate as a community and 167 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:29,240 take care of their dead 168 00:09:41,930 --> 00:09:39,230 whether you are been that was the report 169 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:41,940 coming about out of Australia what did 170 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:51,570 you make of that was impressive you know 171 00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:53,910 three meters nine feet tall that's 172 00:10:01,220 --> 00:09:57,690 that's about about the the typical size 173 00:10:04,579 --> 00:10:01,230 of the the Bigfoot Yowie that we're 174 00:10:07,699 --> 00:10:04,589 familiar with here but a couple red 175 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:07,709 flags as well the first one was the 176 00:10:15,380 --> 00:10:11,130 anonymous source private we have a 177 00:10:19,060 --> 00:10:15,390 delivery driver named Gary I'm sure 178 00:10:22,190 --> 00:10:19,070 Gary's nice fella assuming he exists I 179 00:10:24,170 --> 00:10:22,200 have no reason to think that Gary is 180 00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:24,180 anything but an upstanding credible 181 00:10:30,829 --> 00:10:24,750 person 182 00:10:32,540 --> 00:10:30,839 assuming he exists but any time we're 183 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:32,550 dealing with anonymous sources that's a 184 00:10:36,889 --> 00:10:34,410 big red flag because of course do you 185 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:36,899 there's an there's a barrier between you 186 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:38,700 and trying to you know get more 187 00:10:45,230 --> 00:10:41,970 information the second thing that jumped 188 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:45,240 at me was we also don't know the date we 189 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:47,670 were told that it was in November 190 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:52,170 morning last year well okay so that was 191 00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:53,870 that was two months ago 192 00:10:59,480 --> 00:10:56,700 why are we only hearing about it now why 193 00:11:03,860 --> 00:10:59,490 why do we hear about it shortly after 194 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:03,870 the after the incident so it's a little 195 00:11:07,010 --> 00:11:05,310 it's a little curious that doesn't mean 196 00:11:10,819 --> 00:11:07,020 it didn't happen of course but it just 197 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:10,829 it's just a little sketchy for me could 198 00:11:15,380 --> 00:11:13,350 it be been and and I'm just sort of 199 00:11:17,690 --> 00:11:15,390 grabbed grasping straws here at the 200 00:11:21,470 --> 00:11:17,700 moment could it be that it's just a nice 201 00:11:24,380 --> 00:11:21,480 funny almost a feel-good story a bit 202 00:11:26,180 --> 00:11:24,390 weird and in Australia it's summertime 203 00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:26,190 which we call the silly season where 204 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:30,149 news is a bit slow and I wondered why 205 00:11:37,819 --> 00:11:32,850 any any news agency would pick up such a 206 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:37,829 funny story there is definitely a 207 00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:40,770 tendency in the news media especially to 208 00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:43,440 handle certain of these sort of weird or 209 00:11:48,420 --> 00:11:46,240 extraordinary claims as 210 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:48,430 sort of a cute feature story you know 211 00:11:53,970 --> 00:11:50,529 it's a it's a human interest it's not 212 00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:53,980 it's not science capital s certainly not 213 00:11:57,570 --> 00:11:55,390 not of Sciences they would like to have 214 00:11:59,940 --> 00:11:57,580 it and I've seen that often and I know 215 00:12:01,650 --> 00:11:59,950 you have as well where journalists they 216 00:12:04,260 --> 00:12:01,660 sort of feel like they're given license 217 00:12:06,269 --> 00:12:04,270 they think well you know I'm not I'm not 218 00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:06,279 saying that yeah we definitely exist 219 00:12:13,530 --> 00:12:10,150 this is it's it's a fun story but to my 220 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:13,540 mind the the same journalistic integrity 221 00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:15,520 should apply across the board so if 222 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:17,860 you're if you're going to put this in a 223 00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:19,930 newspaper and you're gonna treat this as 224 00:12:23,490 --> 00:12:22,240 a credible account then it should be 225 00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:23,500 credible it shouldn't that there 226 00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:25,839 shouldn't be one standard for fun 227 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:27,940 feature stories in other Stanford 228 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:29,350 science stories especially if we're 229 00:12:33,690 --> 00:12:31,150 talking about something that allegedly 230 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:33,700 exists and another point that occurred 231 00:12:40,290 --> 00:12:37,420 to me Ben if this is real this is a real 232 00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:40,300 thing happening then the police would 233 00:12:44,430 --> 00:12:42,040 have to be involved because this is a 234 00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:44,440 real danger and a real menace to the 235 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:47,500 Australian public that's true that's 236 00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:49,450 true I mean this is the thing if you're 237 00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:50,920 gonna take these things seriously then 238 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:53,589 we need to take them seriously I did 239 00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,120 notice that in the in in the news piece 240 00:13:02,880 --> 00:12:59,680 there is no photograph of the alleged 241 00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:02,890 damage to his toes the the front of us 242 00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:06,640 is vehicle there's a sketch which is you 243 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:10,270 know a decent sketch I guess but it's 244 00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:12,430 curious that we don't actually see any 245 00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,980 photographs of the damage done by this 246 00:13:18,329 --> 00:13:16,720 Yowie I would I would think that 247 00:13:20,250 --> 00:13:18,339 probably pretty impressive and of course 248 00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:20,260 we might actually be able to determine 249 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:23,260 we might be able to get hair samples or 250 00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:27,040 DNA samples or blood or something so the 251 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:29,860 the fact that it's it's anonymous person 252 00:13:36,449 --> 00:13:33,490 that happened at an unknown date a few 253 00:13:40,019 --> 00:13:36,459 months ago and and is not accompanied by 254 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:40,029 a photograph but a sketch this is shall 255 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:43,570 we say sketchy sketchy and dare we say 256 00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:46,570 it's been we are maybe somewhat 257 00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:52,120 skeptical yes yes well I thought I'd 258 00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:54,070 chat to the man who certainly knows and 259 00:13:59,360 --> 00:13:56,380 just before we wrap it up how is 260 00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,370 squaring the strange going whoops 261 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:01,680 right along thank you for asking yeah 262 00:14:08,060 --> 00:14:05,250 we're we're doing well we as you know he 263 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:08,070 recently went to every two weeks which 264 00:14:13,370 --> 00:14:10,410 allowed the three of us myself and 265 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:13,380 Pasquale Romero and Celestia to sort of 266 00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:16,710 have a more regular schedule around are 267 00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:21,300 a myriad myriad life duties including 268 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:23,670 children and work and whatnot but we're 269 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:26,670 plugging along and have some some fun 270 00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:28,940 episodes in the can coming up as well 271 00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:32,070 fantastic folks it's always good to 272 00:14:36,769 --> 00:14:33,960 listen to squaring the strange and it's 273 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:36,779 always good to chat with Ben Radford Ben 274 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:38,610 I look forward to having another talk 275 00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:39,720 with you soon 276 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:41,880 well as soon as another Australian is 277 00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,190 attacked by some mythical creature Ben 278 00:14:59,850 --> 00:14:50,160 Radford thank you very much 279 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,220 hey fellow skeptics in Radford here with 280 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:05,360 Celeste reward your friendly host of 281 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:07,610 scaring the strange a podcast that looks 282 00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:09,889 at topics ranging from legends panics 283 00:15:14,439 --> 00:15:12,589 and cryptids 3d myths psychology and 284 00:15:16,569 --> 00:15:14,449 folklore breaking things down and 285 00:15:18,730 --> 00:15:16,579 picking things apart as we skeptics do 286 00:15:21,309 --> 00:15:18,740 we bring a few different perspectives on 287 00:15:23,410 --> 00:15:21,319 things cluster for example is a witty 288 00:15:25,809 --> 00:15:23,420 cartoonist and Ben is a brilliant writer 289 00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:25,819 and longtime sceptical investigator we 290 00:15:30,009 --> 00:15:27,529 don't always agree but we have fun 291 00:15:32,259 --> 00:15:30,019 trying and we learn new things join us 292 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:32,269 for new topics every week or two or 293 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:34,610 browse our backlog of evergreen episodes 294 00:15:39,939 --> 00:15:37,850 available on iTunes and all your podcast 295 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:39,949 feeding troughs squaring the strange 296 00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:53,150 [Music] 297 00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:02,490 hmm let's have some Trish and chips his 298 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:09,520 Trish Han so I'm here on this lovely hot 299 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:12,250 summer's day in Australia's festival 300 00:16:19,950 --> 00:16:14,650 season to talk with dr. Brad Makai I'm 301 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:19,960 melting it's boiling and it's that time 302 00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:21,190 of year for those in the northern 303 00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:23,110 hemisphere where we all reach about 40 304 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:25,630 degrees and a lot of people choose to 305 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:27,310 spend their time outside in a field 306 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:29,590 listening to some questionably good 307 00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:33,970 music there is all sorts of different 308 00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:35,470 music festivals out of the moments 309 00:16:40,530 --> 00:16:37,560 absolutely all across the whole country 310 00:16:43,020 --> 00:16:40,540 New South Wales has is it 3 on just this 311 00:16:44,730 --> 00:16:43,030 weekend 3 this weekend yes yeah we're 312 00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:44,740 worried what's gonna be happening to the 313 00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:47,200 youth of today and they will be 314 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:50,230 surviving through this heat yeah not 315 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:52,090 just because the hot day but also if 316 00:16:57,620 --> 00:16:54,190 they've been taking drugs at festivals - 317 00:17:00,990 --> 00:16:57,630 yes so last weekend recently there was a 318 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:01,000 protest I understand about trying to 319 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:03,130 encourage government specifically here 320 00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:04,329 in New South Wales but also why the 321 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:07,870 government to introduce pill testing so 322 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:09,550 I thought we just talk about what what 323 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:11,410 is pill testing why do we think it's 324 00:17:15,689 --> 00:17:13,089 necessary is it necessary 325 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:15,699 etc etc we're not talking about drug 326 00:17:19,579 --> 00:17:17,230 testing obviously drug testing is very 327 00:17:21,449 --> 00:17:19,589 different that sounds very police 328 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:21,459 orientated this is a different thing 329 00:17:26,189 --> 00:17:24,250 entirely so this is testing what's in a 330 00:17:29,130 --> 00:17:26,199 pill that someone may have bought either 331 00:17:32,250 --> 00:17:29,140 online or at festivals so yeah well be 332 00:17:36,210 --> 00:17:32,260 more well in Australia we've had one 333 00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:36,220 trial so far so last year so 2018 in 334 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:39,460 April there was one pill testing event 335 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:42,130 that was able to be done officially in 336 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:44,320 Canberra at a festival called groove in 337 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:47,050 the mood and yeah they they had heaps of 338 00:17:53,370 --> 00:17:48,850 people queuing up to have their pills 339 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:53,380 tested so that's one so far but we've 340 00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:55,690 had pill testing or drug testing for a 341 00:17:59,100 --> 00:17:57,700 long time overseas so even in the 342 00:18:02,940 --> 00:17:59,110 Netherlands that's been available since 343 00:18:04,530 --> 00:18:02,950 the early 90s the technology has changed 344 00:18:07,050 --> 00:18:04,540 quite a little bit quite a bit in that 345 00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:07,060 time yeah so certainly in the first 346 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:09,550 instance we were using reagent kits yeah 347 00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:11,770 so basically you could put it on filter 348 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:13,510 paper and then if the filter paper goes 349 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:15,250 a certain color then you could work out 350 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:16,810 if it was going to be cocaine that was 351 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:18,970 in like the the powder that you've got 352 00:18:24,090 --> 00:18:22,060 or if words MDMA or ecstasy or something 353 00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:24,100 else and that's the same kind of thing 354 00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:25,780 that we do say at the border or if the 355 00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:27,220 police stopped you to see what that 356 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:28,750 thing what they were gonna charge you 357 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:30,790 with carrying right yeah so it takes 358 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:33,970 takes a few minutes to do you can order 359 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:36,250 kits online and do it at home a few so 360 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:38,970 desire and that's all fine and dandy but 361 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:41,620 what we've been using around the world 362 00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:43,330 for for quite a few years is a 363 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:46,420 spectroscopy machine so shining an 364 00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:48,940 infrared light at a small amount of 365 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:50,950 powder or part of a pill that you've 366 00:18:56,610 --> 00:18:52,900 that you've got a sample from and then 367 00:18:58,890 --> 00:18:56,620 you can get a I'm not a scientist regard 368 00:19:01,230 --> 00:18:58,900 the way that I understand it is very 369 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:01,240 simple and it's like getting a like a 370 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:03,130 fingerprint of the chemical that's in 371 00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:04,930 front of you so you can sort of see if 372 00:19:09,150 --> 00:19:06,940 there's a pattern that's equivalent to 373 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:09,160 having MDMA or if it's just talcum 374 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:12,850 powder or if it's paint or or I don't 375 00:19:19,050 --> 00:19:16,270 know hydro light electrolyte liquid or 376 00:19:22,130 --> 00:19:19,060 powder that's there so you can you can 377 00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:22,140 find out exactly what that substance is 378 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:25,270 and then there's also a whole range of 379 00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:26,410 different techniques that are being used 380 00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:29,260 in England particularly and I've been 381 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:30,820 working with a group called the 382 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:34,330 loop-the-loop UK was the first version 383 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:35,770 of that and we've now got the loop 384 00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:38,200 Australia and it's using both 385 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:40,360 spectroscopy machines so you can find 386 00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:42,610 out that digital signature but then also 387 00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,220 using the powder and finding out the 388 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,200 quantity of what's there as well and 389 00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:49,360 there's a lot of debate about whether we 390 00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:51,700 can find out how much MDMA is in a 391 00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:53,980 tablet or not but certainly that that is 392 00:19:57,380 --> 00:19:55,120 a possibility 393 00:20:00,450 --> 00:19:57,390 to do it if you've got some brilliant 394 00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,460 chemists available and experts in their 395 00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:02,320 field then you know we can work that out 396 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:04,360 it takes about 20 minutes to use the 397 00:20:09,030 --> 00:20:06,850 spectroscopy machine and about like 40 398 00:20:12,570 --> 00:20:09,040 minutes or so to figure out the quantity 399 00:20:14,350 --> 00:20:12,580 so the actual milligram can dead a pill 400 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:14,360 contains of a particular 401 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:16,130 brilliant so and this is entirely 402 00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:17,690 portable right so you're not having to 403 00:20:20,530 --> 00:20:19,220 send it off to a lab you're not having 404 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:20,540 to wait for the results and then come 405 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:22,370 back by motorbike courier you can do it 406 00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:24,050 all in the field at the festival with a 407 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,080 music playing yeah so all of this is 408 00:20:31,030 --> 00:20:29,600 portable I'm the gold standard for 409 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:31,040 finding out what's in a tablet or in 410 00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:32,930 powder is really sending it off to a 411 00:20:38,410 --> 00:20:35,300 university laboratory and using big 412 00:20:40,060 --> 00:20:38,420 fancy machines that go Bing and that can 413 00:20:42,010 --> 00:20:40,070 take even a few days for all of those 414 00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:42,020 results to come back so we don't have 415 00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:44,390 that portable at the moment I think we 416 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:46,070 could for about half a million dollars 417 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:48,410 but we're still working on that one 418 00:20:54,250 --> 00:20:52,610 for the moment and but well it a lot of 419 00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:54,260 people criticize it saying oh well if 420 00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:55,820 you've just got a spectroscopy machine 421 00:21:01,030 --> 00:20:59,600 then what's the use of that well well we 422 00:21:03,490 --> 00:21:01,040 might not have the gold standard that we 423 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:03,500 can take out to a lab but that we can 424 00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:04,970 take out them to the field from a lab 425 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:06,440 but at least we can give a bit of an 426 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:08,210 idea to people who are going to 427 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:09,770 festivals about what what their pills 428 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:13,490 contain so and why I'm speaking to maybe 429 00:21:18,250 --> 00:21:16,070 an audience who may not take pills may 430 00:21:19,810 --> 00:21:18,260 not understand kind of what those risks 431 00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:19,820 are we're not talking about necessarily 432 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:22,900 people taking pure MDMA and then 433 00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:25,310 overdosing necessarily to you know 434 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:26,750 you're buying drugs at a festival there 435 00:21:30,250 --> 00:21:28,490 could be anything in them right so we're 436 00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:30,260 talking like kind of what things like 437 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:32,600 fentanyl maybe or other opiates that 438 00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:34,970 kind of stuff or even just understand 439 00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:39,260 the talcum powder what are the risk yeah 440 00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,190 so some people will buy pills external 441 00:21:47,230 --> 00:21:45,200 to a festival and so they may have their 442 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:47,240 regular dealer and they're very happy to 443 00:21:52,030 --> 00:21:50,210 to get their pills from that person what 444 00:21:54,730 --> 00:21:52,040 we find from research is that you're 445 00:21:56,980 --> 00:21:54,740 more likely to get what you're expecting 446 00:21:59,260 --> 00:21:56,990 if you're buying it externally if you 447 00:22:02,380 --> 00:21:59,270 are actually buying it in a festival 448 00:22:05,050 --> 00:22:02,390 when you're passed the sniffer dogs and 449 00:22:08,530 --> 00:22:05,060 past the police and pass the bag chicks 450 00:22:10,510 --> 00:22:08,540 then you do really unlikely to get what 451 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:10,520 you're paying for so this is a research 452 00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:12,530 that's been done out of the UK finding 453 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:13,940 that yeah maybe fifty percent of what 454 00:22:17,620 --> 00:22:16,250 you're getting within a festival was 455 00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:17,630 actually what you were what you're 456 00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:18,320 expecting 457 00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:19,940 yeah and the whole thing was like yeah 458 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:21,620 back in the 90s everyone was saying oh 459 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:24,770 yeah MDMA was and in small doses and 460 00:22:28,299 --> 00:22:25,220 everyone 461 00:22:30,580 --> 00:22:28,309 a good time and yeah there weren't too 462 00:22:33,490 --> 00:22:30,590 many problems there's still a few deaths 463 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,500 around the 90s I'm sure yeah but yeah 464 00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,120 like these days it's really weird like 465 00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,520 the amount of of different chemicals 466 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:39,919 that are on pills has just exponentially 467 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:42,770 increased so you're really not knowing 468 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:44,690 what you're getting one of the drugs 469 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:46,970 that spin around is called in ethyl pent 470 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:49,250 alone which gives people a bit of a high 471 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:52,010 for a few hours and makes them feel like 472 00:22:58,029 --> 00:22:55,970 they're on ecstasy but then their wake 473 00:23:00,460 --> 00:22:58,039 for three days and they've got a high 474 00:23:02,529 --> 00:23:00,470 chance of having a psychotic episode as 475 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:02,539 well so we sometimes do see people 476 00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,100 rocking up to the emergency department 477 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:07,039 going oh my god I can't sleep and the 478 00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:09,710 demons keep on attacking me so yeah so 479 00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,600 there that's really not what people are 480 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:13,520 wanting if they're if they're having 481 00:23:18,010 --> 00:23:15,710 ecstasy and they're wanting a fun time 482 00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:18,020 at a festival normally it would work to 483 00:23:23,049 --> 00:23:20,260 give them a high for two or three hours 484 00:23:25,870 --> 00:23:23,059 but not yeah not for three days of 485 00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:25,880 psychosis and I understand that like in 486 00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:27,679 this festival season we've already had 487 00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:30,620 six deaths here in Australia of young 488 00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:32,270 people who have gone out to have a good 489 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:34,100 time and the price they paid for that 490 00:23:38,770 --> 00:23:37,010 husband the ultimate price so obviously 491 00:23:41,049 --> 00:23:38,780 what we're talking about here with pill 492 00:23:43,180 --> 00:23:41,059 testing isn't necessarily to say to 493 00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:43,190 people I hate these drugs are safe it's 494 00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,020 about harm minimisation right so it's 495 00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,880 about making sure that they know what's 496 00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:48,080 in it then they can make an educated 497 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:50,270 decision rather than just a guess yeah 498 00:23:54,669 --> 00:23:52,130 every country seems to have their own 499 00:23:58,120 --> 00:23:54,679 little debate about it and there's some 500 00:23:59,890 --> 00:23:58,130 local issues that develop and local 501 00:24:02,799 --> 00:23:59,900 language and so for some reason in 502 00:24:05,740 --> 00:24:02,809 Australia safe has become a really dirty 503 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:05,750 word so over in the UK they were talking 504 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:09,010 about drugs safety testing so mainly 505 00:24:14,169 --> 00:24:12,770 providing safety for people but then in 506 00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:14,179 Australia the whole language has been 507 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:15,590 changed and now we're debating it 508 00:24:18,970 --> 00:24:17,030 because people are thinking that we're 509 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:18,980 going to be checking pills and making 510 00:24:24,490 --> 00:24:21,350 sure that that particular pill is safe 511 00:24:27,490 --> 00:24:24,500 for somebody to take yeah but we're here 512 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:27,500 across the board with every pill testing 513 00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:29,450 service around the world we don't say 514 00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,030 that a pill is safe we're saying okay 515 00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:34,640 well this this these are the ingredients 516 00:24:38,909 --> 00:24:37,880 this is what we expect the dose would be 517 00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:38,919 in this batch 518 00:24:44,399 --> 00:24:42,609 pihl's no drug-taking is safe we can't 519 00:24:46,289 --> 00:24:44,409 say that if you're if you're making 520 00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:46,299 these pills and your grandmother's 521 00:24:49,649 --> 00:24:47,950 garage and that there's going to be any 522 00:24:50,999 --> 00:24:49,659 consistency with the drugs or that it's 523 00:24:53,099 --> 00:24:51,009 gonna be like exactly what you're 524 00:24:55,379 --> 00:24:53,109 thinking it can be we can give an idea 525 00:24:57,690 --> 00:24:55,389 but nobody's ever gonna say yeah this 526 00:25:01,019 --> 00:24:57,700 this drug that's made in a bad backyard 527 00:25:02,609 --> 00:25:01,029 lab is gonna be safe for you and there 528 00:25:04,649 --> 00:25:02,619 seems to be this weird sort of political 529 00:25:06,539 --> 00:25:04,659 divide at the moment with this 530 00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:06,549 discussion is that do you think because 531 00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:08,769 politicians are hesitant to see to be 532 00:25:12,029 --> 00:25:10,809 seen as encouraging drug use and they 533 00:25:13,349 --> 00:25:12,039 think that this will encourage it or do 534 00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:13,359 you think it's more that they don't want 535 00:25:18,479 --> 00:25:14,830 to touch the subject of drugs whatsoever 536 00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:18,489 I think it's multifaceted so one aspect 537 00:25:24,419 --> 00:25:21,340 of it is if somebody did have a pill 538 00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:24,429 checked and and this is what the 539 00:25:28,139 --> 00:25:26,169 politicians are saying if that person 540 00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:28,149 was told that their their pill was safe 541 00:25:36,659 --> 00:25:32,320 which we'd never say and then they ended 542 00:25:39,149 --> 00:25:36,669 up dying from having that pill then they 543 00:25:41,009 --> 00:25:39,159 could be held liable for it so they're 544 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:41,019 not wanting to have that green light as 545 00:25:44,369 --> 00:25:42,970 they say to drugs but that's basically 546 00:25:46,379 --> 00:25:44,379 because they don't understand the the 547 00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:46,389 purpose of it so other people say well 548 00:25:49,529 --> 00:25:47,950 why should we have pill testing if we're 549 00:25:52,979 --> 00:25:49,539 just gonna tell everybody that their 550 00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:52,989 drugs are not being safe and again like 551 00:25:56,909 --> 00:25:54,460 that's not really what the systems for 552 00:25:58,799 --> 00:25:56,919 yeah and from a skeptical one of you 553 00:26:01,289 --> 00:25:58,809 like this is really about finding 554 00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:01,299 information and knowledge and helping 555 00:26:05,009 --> 00:26:03,340 people to make a decision based on 556 00:26:06,539 --> 00:26:05,019 what's in front of them 557 00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:06,549 yeah so if you've got somebody with a 558 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:08,289 pill and they have no idea what's what's 559 00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:09,970 in it and they're gonna take it anyway 560 00:26:14,399 --> 00:26:11,350 because that are there at a festival 561 00:26:16,769 --> 00:26:14,409 they've spent $30 to buy a pill to have 562 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:16,779 three hours of fun then yeah that 563 00:26:20,609 --> 00:26:18,730 they're about to take it but pill 564 00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:20,619 testing comes in at that time and sort 565 00:26:25,139 --> 00:26:23,350 of goes okay well let's have a look at 566 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:25,149 it let's see if we can change your mind 567 00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:27,190 let's give you some knowledge yeah an 568 00:26:31,619 --> 00:26:29,769 understanding about what's here and we 569 00:26:34,349 --> 00:26:31,629 find that the vast majority of people 570 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:34,359 who have their pills tested and it's not 571 00:26:39,570 --> 00:26:37,330 what they're expecting they they don't 572 00:26:41,789 --> 00:26:39,580 take it or they modify their use for it 573 00:26:43,499 --> 00:26:41,799 if we're able to find the quantity of it 574 00:26:45,419 --> 00:26:43,509 as well so if we're finding that a pill 575 00:26:48,479 --> 00:26:45,429 has about four times the dose of what 576 00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:48,489 would be an expected pill of MDMA and 577 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:50,550 then we can actually say look that 578 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:53,610 this is this is likely to be quite a 579 00:26:59,120 --> 00:26:56,610 strong kill we don't advise taking it 580 00:27:01,220 --> 00:26:59,130 but hey if you're gonna take it then 581 00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:01,230 don't take the whole freaking thing like 582 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:03,390 maybe if you broke it into half water 583 00:27:07,460 --> 00:27:05,130 don't make your own independent 584 00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:07,470 estrogens but yeah like it just go 585 00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:09,180 really slowly with it and so that's when 586 00:27:12,860 --> 00:27:10,470 pill Kristin can really make a 587 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:12,870 difference yes like it and some people 588 00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:14,850 will go into a festival and they'll 589 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:16,920 double drop or triple drop me yet so 590 00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:18,570 taking two or three pills before they're 591 00:27:22,820 --> 00:27:20,550 even getting through the gates often 592 00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:22,830 people get worried about sniffer dog yes 593 00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,840 that are at the at the front entrance 594 00:27:29,150 --> 00:27:26,720 and so they're taking all of their drugs 595 00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:29,160 because they don't want to be found with 596 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:31,140 them on them so then if you've got a 597 00:27:34,550 --> 00:27:32,730 pill that's four times the dose and 598 00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:34,560 you're taking three of them before 599 00:27:39,530 --> 00:27:37,260 you're going past a dog dog that's 600 00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:39,540 sniffing your ankles yeah then yeah this 601 00:27:42,770 --> 00:27:41,070 is when a lot of people do get into 602 00:27:45,050 --> 00:27:42,780 trouble because they're having too much 603 00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:45,060 too quickly and then ending up in the 604 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:48,870 medical tent or worse dead yeah and so a 605 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:51,210 comparison that I quite like to make is 606 00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:53,130 that when you buy when you're a festival 607 00:27:56,780 --> 00:27:54,660 and you go up to the bar and you buy a 608 00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:56,790 bottle of beer everything on the back of 609 00:28:00,290 --> 00:27:58,290 that bottle is listed it tells you not 610 00:28:02,420 --> 00:28:00,300 only the alcohol content but it'll tell 611 00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:02,430 you they'll be gluten free you know I'll 612 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:03,360 tell you whether that's gluten and 613 00:28:06,380 --> 00:28:04,650 they'll tell you whether there's all 614 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:06,390 sorts of stuff in there and you can get 615 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:08,130 you know paleo beers all that kind of 616 00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:09,510 stuff as well so it tells you everything 617 00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:11,550 that's in that bottle of beer same with 618 00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:13,440 cigarettes nowadays compared to the old 619 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:15,240 days we now know every item it's and 620 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:16,260 cigarettes and obviously they're still 621 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:18,690 very harmful but you know about it no 622 00:28:23,030 --> 00:28:20,610 one's ever gonna say cigarettes are safe 623 00:28:24,590 --> 00:28:23,040 they are probably safer than they used 624 00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:24,600 to be say 50 years back but they're 625 00:28:28,670 --> 00:28:26,670 certainly not safe but yet we legitimize 626 00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:28,680 them we taxed them we sell them because 627 00:28:32,450 --> 00:28:30,750 we know what's meant what's in them 628 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:32,460 they're made in the factories and that 629 00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:34,260 kind of thing right so we're not saying 630 00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:35,820 that at this point we want to 631 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:39,120 necessarily you know federalize drugs 632 00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:40,530 and make it kind of a thing made by the 633 00:28:44,150 --> 00:28:41,700 government and sold by the government 634 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:44,160 but people will continue to make and 635 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:47,250 profit from illicit drugs so harm 636 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:49,650 reduction is definitely a thing that is 637 00:28:54,140 --> 00:28:51,750 worth doing right and and as skeptics 638 00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:54,150 and as skeptics within medicine we're 639 00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:56,220 both pretty keen on harm reduction mmm 640 00:28:59,850 --> 00:28:57,400 well some of the arguments 641 00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:59,860 so well well drugs are illegal so don't 642 00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:01,120 take them yeah it's your fault so you 643 00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:02,980 know if you die that's your own freaking 644 00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:03,430 you fault 645 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:05,470 whereas I sort of think well yeah no 646 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:08,620 edges 18 year olds probably aren't gonna 647 00:29:13,770 --> 00:29:11,710 be well and mature by that time and your 648 00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:13,780 brain keeps on developing until at least 649 00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:16,360 25 yeah for some people a lot more than 650 00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:19,150 that so yeah if you're making a dumb 651 00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:20,500 mistake and taking something that's 652 00:29:24,980 --> 00:29:22,840 illegal when you're 18 I don't think 653 00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:24,990 that you shouldn't have to die like that 654 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:27,640 but it's also like the from a from a 655 00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:29,290 scientific perspective what makes one 656 00:29:33,630 --> 00:29:31,390 drug illegal and the next the next thing 657 00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:33,640 not that we know that alcohol causes far 658 00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:35,680 more problems than MDMA or even 659 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:37,750 methamphetamine and society so we have 660 00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:39,970 about 6,000 plus deaths in Australia 661 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:42,040 every year that have just attributed to 662 00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:44,410 alcohol yeah it's the like after 663 00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:46,750 cigarettes alcohol is the second most 664 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:50,230 common cause of cancer yeah so like it's 665 00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:52,810 not safe even though it's legal yeah um 666 00:29:57,570 --> 00:29:54,910 so yeah just putting a scientific 667 00:29:59,460 --> 00:29:57,580 glasses on and yeah taking the the 668 00:30:00,510 --> 00:29:59,470 legality out of it I think that we 669 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:00,520 should be able to provide information 670 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:02,470 for people and then helping them to 671 00:30:05,850 --> 00:30:04,810 judge whether they're going to be taking 672 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:05,860 their substance or not 673 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:07,690 yeah and it's treating people like 674 00:30:12,510 --> 00:30:09,490 adults and giving the responsibility 675 00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:12,520 back to them if someone is told hey this 676 00:30:16,670 --> 00:30:14,080 this drug this pill that you've bought 677 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:16,680 has got rat poison in it and it's got 678 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:21,520 don't take it right you tell them what's 679 00:30:25,470 --> 00:30:23,170 in it and that's I think maybe something 680 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:25,480 which I've read a lot of sort of the 681 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:26,770 older politicians are saying you know oh 682 00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:28,690 no no one's gonna throw away something 683 00:30:32,490 --> 00:30:30,940 they've paid 30 bucks for if it's gonna 684 00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:32,500 kill them they probably will right 685 00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:34,630 people people don't want to kill their 686 00:30:39,420 --> 00:30:36,220 friends no and they don't want to kill 687 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:39,430 themselves so we and we know from from 688 00:30:43,710 --> 00:30:42,010 UK studies and yes studies all around 689 00:30:45,870 --> 00:30:43,720 Europe that about two-thirds of people 690 00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:45,880 will like dump their drugs so if they 691 00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:47,020 find out that it's not what they 692 00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:49,600 expected the other third we sort of go 693 00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:50,880 okay what are they going to be doing 694 00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:52,750 sometimes they might find that it's 695 00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,460 ketamine rather than MDMA and they'll go 696 00:30:59,700 --> 00:30:56,080 oh well I'll take that then but that's 697 00:31:01,170 --> 00:30:59,710 behind yeah we don't condone I mean but 698 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:01,180 yeah like at least they'll know what to 699 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:03,250 expect and maybe not freak out as much 700 00:31:06,980 --> 00:31:05,170 if they have a different reaction could 701 00:31:08,419 --> 00:31:06,990 compared to what they're expecting 702 00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:08,429 it was my colleagues in the emergency 703 00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:09,750 department that when they turn up they 704 00:31:13,820 --> 00:31:11,700 can say this is what I took rather than 705 00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:13,830 it was white and had a smiley face on it 706 00:31:18,830 --> 00:31:16,590 exactly yeah so it helps us as medical 707 00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:18,840 professionals being able to treat people 708 00:31:22,790 --> 00:31:20,820 if we know what they're what they're 709 00:31:25,549 --> 00:31:22,800 having and we know how long this is 710 00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:25,559 expected to last for yeah yeah so but 711 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:27,500 the the other part of it is is that 712 00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:29,730 there's also this weird feedback 713 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:31,110 mechanism that we don't often talk about 714 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:33,809 in the media or in public but if 715 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:35,670 somebody has bought one pill and they're 716 00:31:39,650 --> 00:31:37,770 planning on buying 20 more from from 717 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:39,660 their dealer and they find out that it's 718 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:41,850 poisonous then they can go back to the 719 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:43,770 dealer and say hey you've sold me a 720 00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:46,410 really dodgy pill yeah and so there's 721 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:49,470 actually like this weird subversive 722 00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:52,380 quality control that's that's brought it 723 00:31:57,020 --> 00:31:54,360 into the system and we don't really 724 00:31:59,419 --> 00:31:57,030 mention this all that much but actually 725 00:32:01,460 --> 00:31:59,429 like what they've found in markets 726 00:32:04,010 --> 00:32:01,470 around the world is that people like 727 00:32:06,169 --> 00:32:04,020 start to produce more MDMA which is what 728 00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:06,179 people are after and less of the the 729 00:32:11,270 --> 00:32:09,390 more poisonous toxic chemicals that can 730 00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:11,280 be out there so it's a self-regulating 731 00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:12,990 market happening right underneath 732 00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:14,670 people's eyes without them even knowing 733 00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:16,230 it yeah well at the moment it's 734 00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:18,630 unregulated there's no tax on it people 735 00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:20,460 can do whatever they want and there's no 736 00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:22,620 repercussions so if somebody's actually 737 00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:25,020 told this is this is terrible 738 00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:26,700 this is not what you're meant to be 739 00:32:30,770 --> 00:32:28,950 selling then yeah like there's there's 740 00:32:34,299 --> 00:32:30,780 some ability to go back down the line 741 00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:34,309 and yeah help to have less poisonous 742 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:37,140 toxic pills out there may be more 743 00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:39,090 suitable doses rather than really high 744 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:40,500 doses which is what we were seeing in 745 00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:42,330 Australia at the moment which yeah and 746 00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:43,590 the thing is as well I guess what this 747 00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:45,990 enables and the organizers of music 748 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:47,760 festivals to do is to issue warnings if 749 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:49,410 they get someone coming into them with a 750 00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:50,970 particular pill that's quite distinctive 751 00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:52,260 and they test it and discover it's 752 00:32:55,940 --> 00:32:54,390 something very dangerous they can put 753 00:32:57,799 --> 00:32:55,950 out an alert to everyone at the festival 754 00:33:00,020 --> 00:32:57,809 saying don't buy this this will kill you 755 00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:00,030 and if they've got drug testing pill 756 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:02,790 testing on-site then the the festival 757 00:33:05,630 --> 00:33:04,110 goers are more likely to take that 758 00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,640 advice seriously rather than just 759 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:07,200 assuming it's scare mongering yeah 760 00:33:11,810 --> 00:33:09,570 exactly so I've talked to people running 761 00:33:13,820 --> 00:33:11,820 festivals over in the UK and they know 762 00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:13,830 that there's some guy who is wearing a 763 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:15,960 black jacket at the certain part of the 764 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:17,850 festival and he's producing all of these 765 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:20,250 like really toxic pill 766 00:33:23,420 --> 00:33:22,170 for everybody you can put up like 767 00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:23,430 billboards you can put it up on the 768 00:33:27,770 --> 00:33:25,320 screens you can put it out on social 769 00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:27,780 media saying these pills that look a 770 00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:29,160 little bit gray and they've got a 771 00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:32,100 picture of a shield on the front of them 772 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:34,740 then this is not weird if I'm there they 773 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:36,810 smell the vomit maybe there's something 774 00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:38,970 wrong with them and so you can actually 775 00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:42,240 target your your advertising campaign or 776 00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:45,600 your warning campaign to to that part of 777 00:33:48,830 --> 00:33:47,550 the festival and then hopefully that guy 778 00:33:52,010 --> 00:33:48,840 who's standing there in a black jacket 779 00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,020 in the rain is able to go oh ok bye oh 780 00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:54,480 my business is over yes let's let's drop 781 00:33:58,010 --> 00:33:56,460 this now and so we find that people 782 00:33:59,900 --> 00:33:58,020 actually wear this pill testing 783 00:34:03,050 --> 00:33:59,910 available that there's less drug use 784 00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:03,060 because people are taking less toxic 785 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:05,160 substances and yeah they're actually 786 00:34:09,770 --> 00:34:07,470 modifying their use and decreasing the 787 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:09,780 amount that they're having it was there 788 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:12,570 and this is the other part of it every 789 00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:14,850 every delivery of information if you're 790 00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:16,830 having pill testing done it's done by a 791 00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:18,270 health professional who knows what 792 00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:19,620 they're talking about and so we actually 793 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:22,260 go through people's past history we talk 794 00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:24,450 about whether they've got epilepsy if 795 00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:25,710 they're on the medication what 796 00:34:29,330 --> 00:34:27,060 mitigation they're on are they on 797 00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:29,340 antidepressants that could make them 798 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:30,899 more likely to have a serotonergic 799 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:33,510 reaction and overheat and die from 800 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:36,210 having something like ecstasy so it's 801 00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:37,950 it's a way of delivering that 802 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:39,600 information that's tailored to that 803 00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:42,870 person and also we find that about 95 804 00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:44,280 percent of people who have that 805 00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:46,169 consultation that's the first time 806 00:34:49,070 --> 00:34:47,280 they've talked with a health 807 00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:49,080 professional about their drug use at all 808 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:51,000 yeah so most people who don't sort of go 809 00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:52,649 to their family GP and say hey I'm 810 00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:55,260 taking pills on the weekend it's not 811 00:35:01,400 --> 00:34:58,020 often something that I see even as a GP 812 00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:01,410 working in Darlinghurst and Sydney but 813 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:04,680 yeah it's targeting those those 814 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:06,690 conversations and enabling people to 815 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:08,090 have an open and honest conversation 816 00:35:11,660 --> 00:35:10,530 about their drug use swimmy yeah 817 00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:11,670 otherwise they're getting information 818 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:14,220 from online or from from Jack 819 00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,160 who's in here 7 yes well and that's the 820 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:19,440 thing is it's hard to see a downside to 821 00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:22,110 providing education right it's if you 822 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:23,640 want to educate the public and have them 823 00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:25,890 make an educated risk they get to take 824 00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:27,720 that risk anyway let's give them 825 00:35:32,510 --> 00:35:30,120 something to actually become skeptics 826 00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:32,520 perhaps even drug skeptics 827 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:35,920 more knowledge is more power absolutely 828 00:35:45,390 --> 00:35:37,570 well on that night thank you very much 829 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:53,670 [Music] 830 00:35:53,680 --> 00:36:00,620 [Applause] 831 00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:05,150 i Richard Oh hi Trish hi would you like 832 00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:05,820 a coffee 833 00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:07,260 yeah thanks what are you working on I'm 834 00:36:11,830 --> 00:36:09,540 trying to come up with a new promo to 835 00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:11,840 play on the sceptic zone who's it for 836 00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:15,300 good thinking society in the UK you know 837 00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,820 the oh yeah I know them the guys who 838 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:19,440 recently chased the homeopaths out of 839 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:21,570 the UK public health system oh did they 840 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:23,490 yeah they campaigned and lobbied 841 00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:24,690 government for a while and now you 842 00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:27,840 cannot get homeopathy on the NHS so they 843 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:29,160 can now spend public money on health 844 00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:31,170 care that works Yeah right look I'll 845 00:36:38,090 --> 00:36:33,540 mention that in the promo now their 846 00:36:39,950 --> 00:36:38,100 website is good thinking society org and 847 00:36:42,410 --> 00:36:39,960 that website is a good resource for 848 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:42,420 learning more about quackery thanks 849 00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:43,920 Trish that gives me something good to 850 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:55,080 the California Academy of Sciences is a 851 00:37:01,920 --> 00:36:58,090 Research Institute and Natural History 852 00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:01,930 Museum in San Francisco California it is 853 00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:04,480 among the largest museums of Natural 854 00:37:11,540 --> 00:37:07,630 History in the world housing over 26 855 00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:11,550 million specimens the Academy began in 856 00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,400 1853 as a learner society and still 857 00:37:21,180 --> 00:37:17,680 carries out a large amount of original 858 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:21,190 research it's California's oldest Museum 859 00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:31,450 and located in Golden Gate Park the 860 00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:34,140 Academy of Sciences I'm in the foyer and 861 00:37:40,830 --> 00:37:38,260 one of the first things to greet us and 862 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:40,840 all these excited children is the 863 00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:46,210 classic t-rex dinosaur skeleton and I'd 864 00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:48,190 love to see these things occasionally it 865 00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:52,540 reminds me how wonderful fantastic and 866 00:37:59,540 --> 00:37:57,000 amazing dinosaurs were and our 867 00:38:02,030 --> 00:37:59,550 and this question is particularly final 868 00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:02,040 it's it looks wonderful as well 869 00:38:08,260 --> 00:38:04,920 presented it looks fierce and it's a 870 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:08,270 great attraction for kids of all ages 871 00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:11,130 the classic t-rex of course if we look 872 00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:15,680 at the forearms that only has two 873 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:19,740 fingers or claws and we look at the 874 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:24,690 giant feet chicken's feet birds feet it 875 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:28,410 is so clear when you look at the 876 00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:31,890 theropod dinosaur you study the feet and 877 00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:33,510 you think of a Turkey's foot or a 878 00:38:39,779 --> 00:38:35,640 chicken's foot north Negus foot 879 00:38:39,789 --> 00:38:45,770 let's explore the Academy 880 00:38:50,060 --> 00:38:48,230 and I've come across a wonderful display 881 00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:50,070 here it's like a Barrier Reef like a 882 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:54,480 coral reef I can look down and see no 883 00:38:59,400 --> 00:38:57,450 end of tropical fish and stingrays from 884 00:39:03,900 --> 00:38:59,410 the buff 885 00:39:08,359 --> 00:39:03,910 again it's enchanting to everybody 886 00:39:16,270 --> 00:39:08,369 let's have a look oh it's just beautiful 887 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:24,010 the kids just love it and me too 888 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:26,650 good to see so many kids here today I 889 00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:29,570 guess there are many school groups which 890 00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:33,440 is fine although I myself sometimes 891 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:34,760 because the school kids here in 892 00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:36,890 California don't have a uniform by and 893 00:39:42,010 --> 00:39:39,920 large whereas back home in Australia if 894 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:42,020 I was at a museum there was a school 895 00:39:47,050 --> 00:39:43,730 group that they'd all be marching around 896 00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:47,060 in their uniform and here we have a 897 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:51,830 classic display which is a giant 898 00:40:00,339 --> 00:39:56,290 pendulum all the way to the ceiling on 899 00:40:03,940 --> 00:40:00,349 unwire and it's demonstrating the world 900 00:40:09,550 --> 00:40:03,950 is rotating so the pendulum is swinging 901 00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:09,560 back and forth in the same sweep it 902 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:12,260 doesn't move in that respect but the 903 00:40:18,359 --> 00:40:15,410 earth is moving beneath it and as the 904 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:18,369 Earth rotates the pendulum knocks over 905 00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:23,960 various little metal poles 906 00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:27,740 it's quite mesmerizing to watch and it's 907 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:29,480 a classic experiment the show the world 908 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:37,120 and here's an interesting one one of the 909 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:41,850 workers here has a alligator or 910 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:49,760 you die it's true all right so you guys 911 00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:51,090 can sort of see how that would work 912 00:41:00,610 --> 00:40:58,960 and I was just about to say it's like 913 00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:00,620 feeling leather which of course it is 914 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:03,920 it's feeling leather now I'm in an 915 00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:07,250 elevator a lift and elevator going down 916 00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:11,030 to the aquarium level it says I saw some 917 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:14,300 of the tropical fish from above so let's 918 00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:20,890 see where this opens up to anticipation 919 00:41:30,350 --> 00:41:27,110 hello I'm still good now I'm safe here 920 00:41:35,759 --> 00:41:32,859 my word 921 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:35,769 so this is what I was looking down upon 922 00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:39,890 it is a giant aquarium here I'm looking 923 00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:48,360 what a wonderful display how thick 924 00:41:56,770 --> 00:41:53,590 mustace glass or perspex be it's a 925 00:42:03,079 --> 00:41:59,620 with hundreds of people here absolutely 926 00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:07,710 now I find myself the exact opposite of 927 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:12,359 before I'm now under the fish looking up 928 00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:22,569 what the hell is that these giant fish 929 00:42:34,330 --> 00:42:30,050 around another corner and what a 930 00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:34,340 spectacular sight this is the biggest 931 00:42:41,710 --> 00:42:37,430 the biggest glass face I've seen here so 932 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:41,720 far it's about oh I don't know 933 00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:44,090 all metres tall something like that 934 00:42:54,849 --> 00:42:52,020 get right up to the front of it now oh 935 00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:54,859 yeah that's tall it's probably about 15 936 00:42:59,770 --> 00:42:56,820 feet tall 937 00:43:02,570 --> 00:42:59,780 or multi-lingual here when it comes to 938 00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:02,580 measurements but it is looking directly 939 00:43:07,610 --> 00:43:04,950 into the coral reefs Oasis fantastic 940 00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:07,620 hundreds of fish unders of tropical fish 941 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:10,380 I can keep walking around it's quite 942 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:15,330 disorienting so much like it's moving 943 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:17,490 and you can probably hear the weird sort 944 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:20,370 of acoustic effect this curved surface 945 00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:24,960 is making step back a little bit and 946 00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:28,440 enjoy the whole scene and it says 947 00:43:37,410 --> 00:43:35,490 coming back up a level or two I'm now 948 00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:37,420 looking down upon the enclosure of an 949 00:43:42,819 --> 00:43:41,020 albino crocodile or alligator let me 950 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:42,829 have a look 951 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:46,130 and the little information sign says you 952 00:43:52,089 --> 00:43:49,249 can tell if this is an albino alligator 953 00:43:54,370 --> 00:43:52,099 by looking at its eyes true albinos have 954 00:43:58,089 --> 00:43:54,380 pink eyes and like the body pigment 955 00:44:01,209 --> 00:43:58,099 melanin in lush green swamps and bright 956 00:44:03,339 --> 00:44:01,219 and then white stands out white 957 00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:03,349 alligator born in the wild would have a 958 00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:05,839 low chance of surviving to adulthood and 959 00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:10,609 yet here one is and look down upon it it 960 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:13,609 looks like it's a Hollywood prop it's 961 00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:15,650 only when you closely look at its eyes 962 00:44:20,769 --> 00:44:17,689 which move occasionally can you tell 963 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:20,779 that it's a real alligator absolutely 964 00:44:28,809 --> 00:44:25,729 beautiful I really cannot underestimate 965 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:28,819 the importance of institutions like the 966 00:44:33,699 --> 00:44:30,890 California Academy of Sciences or the 967 00:44:35,439 --> 00:44:33,709 Australian Museum in Sydney and their 968 00:44:39,849 --> 00:44:35,449 sister organizations all around the 969 00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:39,859 world especially and I note again this 970 00:44:44,910 --> 00:44:42,529 place is full of suit students school 971 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:44,920 students 972 00:44:52,310 --> 00:44:48,890 Wow and here's something 973 00:44:55,250 --> 00:44:52,320 notable on in both directions to my left 974 00:44:58,580 --> 00:44:55,260 them to my right to my left there is a 975 00:45:01,850 --> 00:44:58,590 open lab will aleb with scientists 976 00:45:06,110 --> 00:45:01,860 working you can observe them through a 977 00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:06,120 glass window large glass window and on 978 00:45:11,090 --> 00:45:08,760 the other side we have 979 00:45:15,290 --> 00:45:11,100 goodness me what is this it's a giant 980 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:15,300 dome like some sort of weird experiment 981 00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:17,570 that you see in science-fiction movies 982 00:45:21,590 --> 00:45:19,560 it's enormous 983 00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:21,600 completely transparent with the spiral 984 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:27,520 and it looks like a tropical forest 985 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:31,610 complete with lagoon and fish I guess 986 00:45:39,610 --> 00:45:35,570 it's worth a look and in order to get 987 00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:39,620 there I'm passing the skeleton of I 988 00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:42,319 guess it's a blue whale 989 00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:45,169 you can't quite see the information 990 00:45:50,109 --> 00:45:47,689 about it that's the biggest skeleton 991 00:45:52,299 --> 00:45:50,119 I've ever seen much like the skeleton 992 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:52,309 hanging from the ceiling of the 993 00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:54,610 Australian Museum in Sydney 994 00:45:59,690 --> 00:45:57,940 oh I see I'm passing the section to do 995 00:46:02,940 --> 00:45:59,700 with evolution well that's a good sign 996 00:46:07,770 --> 00:46:02,950 and I guess I'd better join this long 997 00:46:09,350 --> 00:46:07,780 line to get into this incredible looking 998 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:09,360 dome 999 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:12,970 we are hundreds of people and with 1000 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:14,770 hundreds of people we are in a huge 1001 00:46:20,610 --> 00:46:18,490 glass dome it butterflies flying about 1002 00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:20,620 and displays and giving animals and 1003 00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:23,470 little I've lost cases tropical plants 1004 00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:25,990 everywhere but the people outside in the 1005 00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:28,630 rest of the facility are looking in on 1006 00:46:36,359 --> 00:46:32,350 us so maybe in a weird way we're part of 1007 00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:38,970 lots of little things to do and explore 1008 00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:42,040 and breathe along the way a couple of 1009 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:46,000 beautiful merits here just about a me 1010 00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:51,890 defense beautiful macaws 1011 00:47:01,730 --> 00:46:55,200 brilliant blue color blue and yellow a 1012 00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:01,740 orange in the higher I get the warmer it 1013 00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:03,510 seems to be or maybe that's because I'm 1014 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:07,260 exerting myself to walk up this this 1015 00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:10,890 long ramp and the higher we get the more 1016 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:13,740 butterflies there are that's interesting 1017 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:16,050 my guests are all flying to the top and 1018 00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:18,690 I can see way about me there are 1019 00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:23,700 butterfly feeding stations almost the 1020 00:47:31,220 --> 00:47:26,400 very top level and again another 1021 00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:41,300 in the trees as a coach the butterflies 1022 00:47:48,319 --> 00:47:44,700 I can't describe it adequately insist 1023 00:47:59,760 --> 00:47:48,329 it's mythical by walking in a in a 1024 00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:02,650 another elevator and a set of stairs 1025 00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:05,510 brings us to the very roof of the 1026 00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:08,270 Academy of Sciences which is called the 1027 00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:17,140 aha 1028 00:48:27,460 --> 00:48:24,270 whoa 1029 00:48:27,470 --> 00:48:31,790 representation of a real setting 1030 00:48:41,380 --> 00:48:35,560 and inviting habitat for birds it says 1031 00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:41,390 with funny domes and rolling hills 1032 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:45,910 covered with grass and small vegetation 1033 00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:48,410 and it's a wonderful day he were on the 1034 00:48:51,249 --> 00:48:50,150 roof of the Academy of Sciences and 1035 00:48:53,769 --> 00:48:51,259 hello who you 1036 00:48:58,089 --> 00:48:53,779 I am shahara whanaketanga and you're one 1037 00:48:59,859 --> 00:48:58,099 of the volunteers docent volunteer here 1038 00:49:01,449 --> 00:48:59,869 and your job is to explain to people 1039 00:49:04,660 --> 00:49:01,459 which you were just explaining to mean 1040 00:49:06,249 --> 00:49:04,670 some other people how the roof works and 1041 00:49:08,529 --> 00:49:06,259 and you've got a little model here and 1042 00:49:11,979 --> 00:49:08,539 you've got the layers of the roof and 1043 00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:11,989 you're saying that some design had 1044 00:49:14,890 --> 00:49:13,369 turned up with a sketch pad and just 1045 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:14,900 said here's what the roof should look 1046 00:49:20,529 --> 00:49:16,130 like would complete with rolling hills 1047 00:49:24,370 --> 00:49:20,539 yeah yeah the architect for this 1048 00:49:25,989 --> 00:49:24,380 building had it just came in and had 1049 00:49:29,650 --> 00:49:25,999 this vision in his head he was walking 1050 00:49:30,910 --> 00:49:29,660 his daughter this is true legends he was 1051 00:49:33,099 --> 00:49:30,920 walking his daughter around San 1052 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:33,109 Francisco and noticed the hills and how 1053 00:49:38,499 --> 00:49:35,660 beautiful it was and then he just had 1054 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:38,509 this thought that he wanted to preserve 1055 00:49:44,739 --> 00:49:42,170 the park within the building you know 1056 00:49:46,449 --> 00:49:44,749 and so he decided that that's how he was 1057 00:49:49,359 --> 00:49:46,459 gonna he was gonna raise the roof and 1058 00:49:51,609 --> 00:49:49,369 let the park be on top of it and it 1059 00:49:53,559 --> 00:49:51,619 worked I think you'll agree it really 1060 00:49:55,539 --> 00:49:53,569 worked so you're up here on the roof 1061 00:49:58,509 --> 00:49:55,549 today explaining to people how the roof 1062 00:50:00,099 --> 00:49:58,519 works you find yourself in other areas 1063 00:50:04,449 --> 00:50:00,109 of the the building to explain other 1064 00:50:06,910 --> 00:50:04,459 things yes I work in the flooded Amazon 1065 00:50:09,579 --> 00:50:06,920 rainforest oh yes you I work at the 1066 00:50:11,799 --> 00:50:09,589 titles and in the rainforest fantastic 1067 00:50:13,959 --> 00:50:11,809 and I guess it's a sort of job that you 1068 00:50:16,749 --> 00:50:13,969 just really have a heart and a passion 1069 00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:16,759 for definitely thank you very much thank 1070 00:50:24,970 --> 00:50:21,910 I'm now making my way to the planetarium 1071 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:24,980 for the 12:30 showing of our journey to 1072 00:50:30,580 --> 00:50:28,010 the Stars I think it is but on my way 1073 00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:30,590 I'm stopping by the African gallery 1074 00:50:37,350 --> 00:50:33,920 human Odyssey it says which has displays 1075 00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:37,360 on Africa and evolution of primates and 1076 00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:46,640 display of living penguins look at them 1077 00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:51,089 aren't they sweet and we can see below 1078 00:50:59,950 --> 00:50:53,030 the water and above the water 1079 00:51:03,560 --> 00:50:59,960 maybe Heine giant glass giant glass 1080 00:51:06,310 --> 00:51:03,570 panel and they're just hanging out on 1081 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:06,320 their rocks these penguins are just 1082 00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:17,330 well that was very enjoyable in the 1083 00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:19,790 planetarium journey to the Stars a 1084 00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,140 visualization of the galaxy and the life 1085 00:51:27,230 --> 00:51:24,960 of stars well I'm back at the dinosaur 1086 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:27,240 again the t-rex which means it's time to 1087 00:51:33,860 --> 00:51:30,810 go maybe a quick trip to the gift shop 1088 00:51:36,650 --> 00:51:33,870 on my way out but what a wonderful thing 1089 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:36,660 it is to do to visit the California 1090 00:51:47,330 --> 00:51:45,570 Academy of Sciences if you're planning a 1091 00:51:49,930 --> 00:51:47,340 visit to the California Academy of 1092 00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:49,940 Sciences check out their website at Cal 1093 00:51:57,020 --> 00:51:53,640 Academy org and the general opening 1094 00:52:00,900 --> 00:51:57,030 hours are Monday to Saturday 9 a.m. to 5 1095 00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:00,910 p.m. or on Sunday 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. 1096 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:21,700 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1097 00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:24,050 zone and thank you again to those people 1098 00:52:30,670 --> 00:52:27,520 who contribute and via patreon a PayPal 1099 00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,680 and if it wasn't for your generous 1100 00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,240 support there would be no skeptic 1101 00:52:38,020 --> 00:52:34,640 certain of course and if you've ever 1102 00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,030 considered chipping and helping to 1103 00:52:46,740 --> 00:52:40,400 support the skeptic zone well why not 1104 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:46,750 try it for $5.00 a month via patreon and 1105 00:52:53,170 --> 00:52:50,810 do that for the rest of 2019 if only a 1106 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:53,180 tiny percentage of the listenership did 1107 00:53:01,390 --> 00:52:57,410 that it would really help the show stay 1108 00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:01,400 online as it stands at the moment it it 1109 00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:04,220 scrapes through every week every month 1110 00:53:09,850 --> 00:53:06,530 it sort of just scraped through with a 1111 00:53:12,430 --> 00:53:09,860 lot of kind support from especially my 1112 00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:12,440 reporters and a lot of free work being 1113 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:15,200 done I have to be candid so if you've 1114 00:53:20,410 --> 00:53:17,690 ever considered it it would be really 1115 00:53:21,820 --> 00:53:20,420 great if you could do so and maybe also 1116 00:53:24,850 --> 00:53:21,830 at the same time you can consider 1117 00:53:29,110 --> 00:53:24,860 supporting Maynard at Maynard comdev a 1118 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:29,120 you with his podcast because he is works 1119 00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:30,530 very hard to bring you fabulous 1120 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:34,460 entertainment and comedy looking forward 1121 00:53:40,030 --> 00:53:36,050 to seeing may not soon I hope to be back 1122 00:53:41,710 --> 00:53:40,040 in Australia in about a week although I 1123 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:41,720 understand with the heat over there 1124 00:53:47,970 --> 00:53:45,170 maybe it's better to be in California or 1125 00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:53,560 but for this week very very excited 1126 00:53:56,590 --> 00:53:55,250 schoolchildren just having visited the 1127 00:54:01,530 --> 00:53:56,600 Academy of Sciences 1128 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:04,630 sort of trying to this is Richard 1129 00:54:16,510 --> 00:54:08,810 Saunders signing off from San Francisco 1130 00:54:19,210 --> 00:54:16,520 California you've been listening to the 1131 00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:19,220 skeptic zone podcast please visit our 1132 00:54:28,690 --> 00:54:25,910 website at wwlp.com tax and to access 1133 00:54:32,290 --> 00:54:28,700 the back catalog of episodes going back 1134 00:54:35,950 --> 00:54:32,300 to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone 1135 00:54:38,350 --> 00:54:35,960 podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit 1136 00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:38,360 our facebook page or leave a review on 1137 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:39,250 itunes 1138 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:41,930 you can also support the skeptic zone 1139 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:45,290 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 1140 00:54:50,410 --> 00:54:48,010 podcast is an independent production 1141 00:54:52,510 --> 00:54:50,420 reviews and opinions expressed on the 1142 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:52,520 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1143 00:54:56,670 --> 00:54:54,890 of Australian skeptics or any other